jerrel lharris, all about jerrel harris: February 2008

Monday, 25 February 2008

dummie funnies 12 14 05 bev harris of

DUmmie FUnnies 12-14-05 ("Bev Harris of BBV coming on Artbell show!")

Bev Harris is BACK! And she is only $10 away from overturning the 2004

election results! For those of you unfamiliar with Bev Harris, she was

the one-time heroine of DUmmieland upon whom the DUmmies placed their

hopes and considerable bucks in a effort to prove vote fraud. In this

effort, Randi Rhodes of Err America was her chief shillmeister which

gave Bev even more credibility among the DUmmies. Despite NUMEROUS

advance warnings here on the DUmmie FUnnies, both the DUmmies and

Randi continued to promote Bev vigorously. The end result was that

both the DUmmies and Randi realized they were SCAMMMED when it was too

late. Maybe they should have paid attention to the MANY clues provided

in the DUFUs such as the fact that Bev avoided the Ohio battleground

state like the plague and preferred to use her DUmmie donations to

investigate "vote fraud" in Florida from the confines of 5-star hotel

suites. And yet, despite the fact that the DUmmies (and Randi) finally

woke up after having been EASILY conned by BBV Bev, she is BACK in the

hearts of the DUmmies as you can see in this THREAD titled, "Bev

Harris of BBV coming on Artbell show....on next!" So let us watch the

DUmmies work themselves into a frenzy as a prelude to opening their

wallets for Bev Harris again in Bolshevik Red while the commentary of

your humble correspondent, hearing the faint theme tune of "The Sting"

in the distance, is in the [brackets]:

Bev Harris of BBV coming on Artbell show....on next!

[Bev Harris on the Art Bell show? How very VERY appropriate.]

If you do not know your local radio affiliate who carries the Art Bell

show free, aka coasttocoastam....go to their site...artbell.com and

look under affiliates. To get online stream, it costs money.

[You are just $10 away from hearing Bev Harris online.]

She is talking right now about Diebold...

[Get ready to wet your panks and yank your wallet.]

Good for her , go get em Bev !

[Thus posted an obvious mark.]

She is not exactly either credible or a DU favorite.

After what she did on DU and to many DUers why would anyone want to

listen to her?????

[Oh. Finally WOKE UP did we? And how many bucks did you go thru before

Reality dawned upon you?]

As she is not welcome at DU it would appear it is more than just to

"some" Her viciousness to Andy before he died was enough to render her

persona non grata with most posters who didn't already despise her. I

am sorry but it sickens me when anyone tries to promote this woman in

anyway esp on DU.JMHO.

[Her crime was not giving Andy his fair share of the scam.]

I was one who donated for Andy's operation even tho I was unemployed.

I don't know of the battles you speak of.

Don't denigrate me for trying to do anything to get rid of these

damned machines.

Put squabbles aside and look at the big picture.

[Look at the big picture. It is worth getting scammed again if it can

give us more false hope.]

I don't denigrate you. It is Ms. Harris I have no respect for.

You are wonderful to pay attention to this issue, but she is not a

good source.

[Why not? Bev is just as good a source as any of the DUmmies

constantly promoting election whacko election conspiracy theories in

DUmmieland. Bev's genius was in actually using those whacko election

conspiracy theories as a marketing tool to scam you folks out of your

bucks.]

I think people are getting tired of the anti Bev stuff, it's getting

VERY VERY OLD. And quite possible a little silly.

[Bev stuff always makes for great DUFU material!]

I just don't think such viciousness and deceit ought to be forgotten.

And Life and Death, is not something to be made light of. And many

newer members are unaware of who Bev REALLY is.

[Bev Harris always has a fond place in the hearts of the DUFU fans for

providing us with such great hilarious material by so EASILY scamming

the DUmmies.]

If someone lies and cons you like that in the past

how can you ever trust them again? I've been lied to time and time

again so I know how that feels. How can you ever trust that person

again? Even if you do you still have that deep thought in your mind

that they might be lying to you again.

[You've been lied to time and time again. And time and time again you

just keep handing over your $$$. How can you expect a con artist to

refrain from scamming a mark like you?]

I won't forget. Ever.

[Until the NEXT TIME you hand over $10.]

And don't forget what happened at Free Republic

[Yeah. They laughed their asses off over how easily Bev Harris scammed

you in DUmmieland.]

Don't forget conning people

and just plain lying.

[Bev Harris is just $10 away from never conning people or lying again.

Send money now.]

Bev has done a tremendous amount for the fraud

of evoting. She was instrumental in awakening America. Of course Andy

was a tremendous partner and help, as others, including myself were,

in that regard.

I am sick and tired of the chip on what you all draw like a badge. It

hurts America and our power as voters. I respect tremendously what

Andy, Bev, and others have done. In case you havent noticed, WE HAVE

WORK TO DO!!!

[Yes. There is much work to do in the cause of proving vote fraud. So

lets start off by putting our energies into, um, fundraising.]

Bev havs ben working with the opposition by her own admission. She

posted about her GOP ties on her site. But whatever.And Bev did very

little except take credit for others work. She is NOT entitled to

respect. Sorry.

[I respect the way Bev so easily conned you DUmmies despite the

NUMEROUS warnings you received.]

Anyone can look up her past and see what all she has done and once

they find out do you think they're going to believe her about voting

fraud? I don't think so. She's a con artist herself. From someone who

has only had liars as so-called friends excuse me while I don't jump

on the band wagon. There are other people working on the fraud case

who you can trust such as BradBlog and John Conyers. Their trackrecord

is much better than hers.

[BradBlog and John Conyers are only $10 away from proving vote fraud.]

I don't think we can trust her - at all.

[The wake up call finally reached you...too late.]

I know you feel burned...but think about it

There are people who are not computer literate, who do not know what

is going on, who are hearing of this for the first time.

Look at the larger picture. We need more people who are aware of the

pitfalls of these electronic voting machines. This is only about that.

[Look at the larger picture. There are people who are not literate who

don't know what is going on who are now getting burned for the first

time.]

Yes, we need to educate ourselves and others about election fraud. But

if this woman (I can't even type her name) is leading the charge,

count me (and tens of thousands of other DUers) OUT. We will proceed

in this work without this bitch.

[Getting scammed in an OBVIOUS con is a real bitch.]

She is still part of the election reform movement

We just have to deal with the fact that some people on our side are

going to be assholes some of the time. This is true for any issue

movement, and the work still has to come first. We don't need to give

her money or support her in any other way, but it's pointless to stop

her ongoing participation. The movement is way, way bigger than she is

at this point.

[You just have to deal with the fact that MOST people on your side are

going to be suckers most of the time so you DO need to give her

money.]

You don't seriously think DUers will call to talk to Bev after her

actions after the things she has done? It wouldn't be pretty if they

did.

[Perhaps the DUmmies won't call to talk to Bev but they will

definitely send $$$ to her.]

She has tainted evrything she has been involved with.

Remember the opinion Keith Olberman and Randi Rhodes had of her. I

respect both Randi and KO and they completly disrespect her. Randi

makes no bones about the fact she feels Bev stole money from her

listeners. And that is the tip of the iceberg. No one credible

supports this woman. She is destroying the vote herself for her own

ends.

[Randi has also tossed Bev Harris down her memory hole. Even her

interview archives about Bev are gone. However, my memory is still

intact---Randi Rhodes was the chief media shill for the BBV Bev scam.]

I've seen enough paranoid dellusions out of the woman to

question her perception of "truth".

[Thank you for that accurate description of virtually all DUmmies.]

Perhaps you need to take Bev down from that cross

She doesn't look comfortable.

[The Passion of the Bev.]

And from her conning people she has tainted anything she would ever

say in the future.

[Yes. We remember how EASILY she conned the people of DUmmieland

despite tons of warnings in advance.]

And then Keith, who'd been sympathetic, had to back away from her and

say that maybe we'd all been conned.

[Including Keith Olbermann.]

As I said before anyone could look up her history all the way from

conning and lying to what happened with Andy.

[You COULD have looked up her history PRIOR to being conned but YOU

didn't. Therefore you DESERVED to be conned. Congratulations on

emptying out your wallet!]

What I do know and I was THERE in the very beginning, even before

Bev**, and I will tell you that Bev got things moving to a level that

few if any others did.

[Bev was certainly successful in raising the level of her bank

account.]

But what did SHE do?

[Bev successfully raised vast funds in order to investigate vote fraud

from 5-star hotel suites in Florida.]

Bev made things MOVE. Bev helped bring attention to the crisis and put

it on the map. She may not have done it perfectly. Fine. But SHE GOT

PRESS. Others did not. I believe Andy would concur, whatever the

disagreement was. I hope I am right.

[Bev Harris is just $10 away from making things MOVE again.]

What I am saying is that Andy DID CARE who the messanger was and he

would not have personally supported BEV. It does make a difference WHO

it is. But it will never be Bev so we don't have to worry as she has

never accomplished anything yet. Seems she always needs "more money"!

[Just $10 MORE to be exact.]

She took quite a bit of money and there are quite a few folks around

these parts who feel like that money was wasted.

[The technical term for those folks is "suckers."]

posted by PJ-Comix at 8:10 AM

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i kissed dating goodbye ten years later

Joshua Harris and I Kissed Dating Goodbye--Ten Years Later

It was about ten years ago that I Kissed Dating Goodbye took American

by storm. I had a full-time job as a drug rehab counselor and was

pursuing graduate studies in theology. I didn't hear about his book

when it came out--even if I had, extra reading just wasn't on my

agenda.

I didn't read the book until I came to the Philippines. Some of my

students had read it and I figured I needed to give them an informed

opinion. I have to say that I was pleasantly surprised. The book was

not nearly as "anti dating" as the title suggested. I read Boy Meets

Girl and Not Even a Hint not long after--these books also impressed

me.

While I don't agree with Joshua Harris on everything, I really

appreciate what he has done. His books have made some extremely

important points:

*Dating/courtship should be preparation for marriage.

*Sexual purity matters.

*Intimacy should only be as deep as the level of commitment.

*Being single has unique advantages in serving God.

Josh wasn't the first to make these points, but he was incredibly

effective at communicating them to his readers.

The major "problem" I have with I Kissed Dating Goodbye has nothing to

do with the book itself--it is the way people have applied it. Instead

of treating it as one man's journey, some treat it as the ultimate

authority on Christian relationships. Here's a recent quote from

Josh's blog:

I am often asked if I still agree with what I wrote in my first book I

Kissed Dating Goodbye. The answer is that I do, but I'm quick to state

that I've never claimed that the ideas I share in it are for everyone,

nor that my book is or should be the final word on Christian

relationships. The book is simply me at 21 years old sharing my

personal journey of learning to honor God with romance and

relationships.

I also add that, while I stand by what I wrote, I don't always like

the way other people represent or champion the concepts I've written

about. Sadly, there have been many times that people have applied its

principles in a very legalistic and heavy-handed way. Some people have

had my book forced on them or have been treated as though agreeing

with me is the only option for Christians. If you're one of those

people, I apologize. That certainly wasn't my intention when I wrote

it.

I would encourage singles to read books from Joshua Harris, Grace

Dousel (True Love Weds), yours truly (if you need something to help

you sleep), and other authors. Just keep in mind that the Bible itself

is the only final authority. Please use God's word as the guide for

jonathan harris how do we feel

Jonathan Harris- how do we feel?

It seems Sunday is the day I get to read and find things and this talk

chris harris sledges cub plans

Chris Harris sledges the CUB plans

posted by Steven Noble

I have to agree with Chris when he argues for fewer car parking spots

and more sunlight. However, I'm more than happy for it to be a

high-density development with high-rise buildings.

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2006_05_01_archive

Together for the Gospel

This past week our pastoral team, along with all the pastors in

Sovereign Grace, attended the pastors conference called Together for

the Gospel which was hosted by four men: CJ Mahaney, Mark Dever, Ligon

Duncan and Al Mohler. These men spoke along with John Piper, RC Sproul

and John MacArthur.

There were 3,000 pastors from across the country and many different

denominations. It is no exaggeration to describe this event as both

historic and anointed by God's Spirit. I can't do justice to

describing the effect of sitting under the teaching of these

world-class leaders as they exhorted us to faithfully preach God's

word and proclaim the gospel. But beyond their teaching, it was moving

to witness them come together in celebration and defense of the

gospel.

It was also deeply moving to be with so many brothers from around the

country who are devoting their lives to proclaim Christ and Him

crucified. To sit with them, talk with them, and sing with them was a

joy.

But my greatest joy was seeing God use my dear friend, CJ Mahaney. He

passed on the leadership of our church to me so that he could be free

to serve God in new ways. What a thrill to see at this momentous event

some of the "new ways" he is being used.

CJ just did an outstanding job. His leadership and participation was

essential. His example of humility, his passion for the Savior and his

teaching deeply effected all the men present. And he added some much

needed humor.

The following is a letter I emailed CJ after the conference. One brief

note of explanation: before his session, CJ, with his typical

self-deprecating humor told the story of the pilot of a Cessna

airplane finding himself on an airport runway with one of the huge

Concord planes. When it took off, the ground shook. CJ said that with

each of the previous speakers, we'd experienced Concords taking off,

but his own session was like that little Cessna puttering into the

sky. Knowing this will explain what I reference at the close of the

letter...

My friend, my mentor, my hero and my pastor:

I am so proud of you. I am bursting with gratefulness to God for

you, for your example for the job you did at the conference, for

the outstanding message you gave.

I just want you to know that you preached so faithfully, there was

obvious conviction taking place throughout the room. The conference

would have been incomplete without your message and without your

voice throughout. You weren't merely representing "below average"

guys like me, you were caring for REAL PASTORS through your

efforts.

This is the greatest encouragement I can give you: a pastor named

Eric came to the conference by himself. We met him at the airport

waiting in line at a restaurant and invited him to eat with me,

Eric Simmons, Brian and Joe. He pastors a church of 60 in Kermit,

Texas, which is in the middle of nowhere. He is alone in his work.

He has no team. He loved the conference. At the end of the meal he

said this:

"Tell, CJ he was a concord today...but he has the heart of a

Cessna."

That my friend is why you are so great in my eyes, but more

importantly in the eyes of God. You are a concord but you walk with

an awareness of your weakness and dependence on God. I hope that

when you sleep tonight you will dream of what happened Sunday

morning...three thousand pastors along with five of the most

brilliant Christian leaders in the world on the front row, listened

to their friend and faithful expositor preach the word with

clarity, boldness and humility! My friend, it was not a dream! It

really happened by God's grace.

Thank you for doing this conference so that our team and all of

Sov. Grace could participate. We were so well served.

With deep love and respect,

Joshua

If you're a pastor, I would highly recommend that you get ahold of the

messages from the conference. They're available from the Sovereign

Grace Store.

// posted by Joshua @ 12:49 PM |

Interview for Driscoll Conference

open letter the harris county gop

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harris guards ohio national guard in

jennifer j harris killed in helicopter

Jennifer J. Harris killed in helicopter crash

A Marine captain from Swampscott, who tackled the rigors of the US

Naval Academy and became a helicopter pilot, died Wednesday in a crash

during her third tour in Iraq, according to a town veteran official.

Captain Jennifer Harris, 28, was the second Swampscott native to die

in the war. This morning, firefighters hung black and purple memorial

bunting on the sides of their station on Burrill Street. Flags also

flew at half-staff at the police station next door.

James Schultz, the veteran's agent in town and a Swampscott police

detective, said he had known Harris since she was senior at Swampscott

High School in 1996. He said he visited her family shortly after the

military notified them about her death.

A CH-46 Sea Knight helicopter crashed on Wednesday in a field in Anbar

province, about 20 miles from Baghdad. All seven people onboard died,

according to the Associated Press.

Harris went to the US Naval Academy in Annapolis, Md., where she

graduated in 2000. Schultz said she chose the most difficult path at

the academy when she decided to be trained as a Marine officer.

"She liked to take on the challenges," Schultz said.

This morning a steady parade of cars stopped by her family's greenish

ranch-style home on Elwin Street in Swampscott. A flag in the backyard

flew at half-staff. A note on the door asked that the media: "Please

respect our privacy. Thanks."

"Jennifer Harris exemplified the best of what this country has to

offer," her family said in statement read to the media at the

Swampscott VFW hall. "She was proud to be a Marine and proud to serve

her country."

Harris was an only child. Her father "was incredibly proud of his

daughter," Schultz said.

During Harris' first tour, her father remained relatively calm,

Schultz said. He grew a little more apprehensive during her second,

dave matthews and emmylou harris sing

Sunday, 24 February 2008

2006_12_01_archive

Speaking in Tokyo Today

Shannon and I just got off the phone with our pediatrician Dr. Niu

(thank God for this dear man and the way he serves us and so many

others in our church!) Joshua Quinn's cough has gotten pretty bad and

his fever has come back a bit, so we were calling to get advice. We're

going to try and find some Robitussin PE and hope he'll improve before

we get on the plane Sunday afternoon. Please pray for him to get rest

today, and for the plane ride home.

I speak later today here in Tokyo. This is a very exciting

opportunity. When we planned the trip to speak at the homeschool

conference, this event was not scheduled. I mentioned in passing to

Hiro that I'd be happy to speak at any other event he'd like and he

took the suggestion as a challenge! So, his small homeschool

organization decided to do something brand new for them and organize

an event aimed at young adults and singles.

He told me last night that they had been hoping for around 200 people,

but that in the past week they've had 600 register, which is a very

encouraging number for Japan. He says that approximately 40% of those

coming are 25-35 years old. With another 20% teenagers and the rest a

mix of university students and families. He was excited because

they're not people that their organization has ever been in contact

with. He also told me that it seems, to some small extent, that my

books here are being read by non-Christians. So possibly there will be

unbelievers present. Praise God!

Please pray for me as I speak today. It starts at 1:30pm Tokyo time

(that means 11:30pm EST), and I'll give three sessions. The first talk

is called "Rethinking Romance," and is basically a message sharing

some of the principles from Boy Meets Girl. The next two are drawn

from Sex is Not the Problem (Lust Is).

Please pray that God will help me speak clearly, and that nothing will

be lost in interpretation. Hiro Inaba will be translating for me.

Please pray that God will make his work effective.

I'm asking God to use these messages to greatly encourage the

Christians here, and to open the eyes of some to the gospel. Please

join me in praying that many of the singles will hear God's word

calling them to righteousness and purity in their relationships, and

most wanted information on dr evan

oscar whets ones appetite for harris

Oscar: 'whets one's appetite for Harris'

* Oscar and the Pink Lady continues to elicit similarly mixed

responses, with Paul Hodgins of The Orange County Register

describing Eric-Emmanuel Schmitt's play as 'too slight a vehicle'

for Ms Harris' 'impressive suite of talents'.

Also like some reviewers before him, he fails to find the character of

Oscar entirely convincing for his age:

[...] Oscar is simply too precocious and conveniently wordsmith-y

to be plausible. He talks like a literary conceit, not a little

boy. [...]

He is alone however in meting out the first explicit criticism of Ms

Harris, saying she 'doesn't always do a crystal-clear job of

delineating character', although the positive comments far outweigh

the negative in regard to the actress. Hodgins praises her overall

performance as 'spontaneous, natural and completely unforced',

describing that as 'a treat to see in such an intimate environment.'

* Secondly, we say 'Bereg Utopii!' as the third version of The Coast

of Utopia opens in Russia. John Freedman, in a pre-publication

review for The Moscow Times on October 12th, describes the long

run-up to this point:

[...] Two years in the making, the "Utopia" project has enjoyed

hands-on participation from Stoppard, who has visited Russia

frequently to meet the troupe of the National Youth Theater and who

was prominently present at third-row center for the 10-hour opening

night last Saturday. To my knowledge there has never been a more

thorough collaboration between a Russian theater and a major

western playwright. This association has included readings,

rehearsals, trips to the Russian countryside, an educational

program run through several Moscow institutes and even a trip to

Sparrow Hills to clean off a monument to Herzen and his friend

Nikolai Ogaryov... [...]

In case you happen to be in Moscow, Freedman gives performance details

- 'Bereg Utopii plays October 20 and 27 at the National Youth Theater,

located at 2 Teatralnaya Ploshchad. MetroTeatralnaya. Tel. 692-0069,

692-1879, 692-6572.' And in case you can read Russian, here are two

(possibly?!) relevant websites: ramt.ru and stoppard.ru.

* Thirdly, Sir Tom has written a fascinating piece for Vanity Fair

about Pink Floydian Syd Barrett's relation to his play Rock 'n'

Roll. Mr Stoppard also makes an interesting revelation about his

working habits:

[...] With each play, I tend to become fixated on one particular

track and live with it for months, during the writing--my drug of

choice, just to get my brain sorted. Then I'd turn off the music

and start work. I wrote most of "The Coast of Utopia" between

listening to "Comfortably Numb" on repeat. [...]

* Fourthly, if there are any collectors among you, eBay has a number

of items relating to Rosemary Harris, including a 1976 Playbill

for The Royal Family and a copy of Life magazine from 1966 (with

cover girl Jackie Kennedy!)

* Fifthly, regarding release dates for Ms Ehle's latest projects,

IMDb is now giving the USA date for The Russell Girl as February

2008, meaning it will be out prior to Pride and Glory, which is

currently set for 14 March 2008 (UK and USA).

sam harris strikes again

Sam Harris Strikes Again

Thanks, once again, Sam Harris!

Paul Campos pens a God-awful column in today's Rocky Mountain News, in

which he gets to slam secularists as sadistic pedophiles thanks to the

good offices of my favorite atheist mystic, Sam Harris. [DEL: I

haven't the time or the inclination to rip it completely to shreds,

but I'll note some of the highlights. :DEL] Time for a fisking.

Campos, pretends that (1) the fact that human beings can disagree

means that knowledge from evidence and logic (as opposed to blind

faith) is impossible, and (2) that the mysticism of Sam Harris (which

I detail more in the first link) is "the" alternative to said blind

faith.

'If you talk to God," the psychiatrist Thomas Szasz observed,

"that's called 'prayer.' If God talks to you, that's called

'schizophrenia.' " Szasz was making an ironic observation about how

the definitions of concepts like "reason" and "madness" are

controversial and politicized.

In his much-discussed book The End of Faith, Sam Harris says

something that sounds similar, but lacks Szasz's ironical nuance:

"Jesus Christ - who, as it turns out, was born of a virgin, cheated

death and rose bodily into the heavens - can now be eaten in the

form of a cracker. A few Latin words spoken over your favorite

Burgundy, and you can drink his blood as well. Is there any doubt

that a lone subscriber to these beliefs would be considered mad?"

What irony can be found in Harris' polemic, which is dedicated to

proving that religious belief consists of irrational superstitions

which are increasingly dangerous in this technologically advanced

age, is almost exclusively of the unintentional kind.

Harris wants us to reject "faith" and embrace "reason," by which he

pretty much means the philosophical view known as materialism, with

a dab of vaguely Buddhist mysticism thrown into the metaphysical

mix.

Even if Campos had discarded Harris's gratuitous Buddhism and focused

his attack on "materialism", he would have had an easy go at smearing

secularism. One of the most common misconceptions about a non-mystical

view of the universe is, after all, that it necessarily entails the

sort of deterministic, "billiard-ball" notion of causality we see in

the next paragraph. This is patently absurd when one considers the

idea that free will is a different type of causation. Free will

manifestly exists. The fact that we cannot explain it yet does not

invalidate reason as a means to knowledge, nor does it mean we can

just make up whatever else we like while we're ignorant about the

point.

Materialism is the view that at bottom reality consists of nothing

but particles in fields of force, and that all events are caused

solely by the operation of mindless physical laws. Several things

should be noted about this belief. First, believing in materialism

is an act of faith like any other. The ultimate nature of reality

isn't a scientific question, and anyone who expects science to

provide answers regarding such matters doesn't understand either

science or religion.

Campos is correct when he says that "The ultimate nature of reality

isn't a scientific question...." This is something I, a secularist and

a scientist, have pointed out myself. But in doing so, I have pointed

out that many sloppily substitute terms like "science" or

"materialism" -- or both, in the case of really sloppy writers like

Campos -- for "reason". Indeed, it is the faculty of reason that

allows man to grasp the nature of reality through the appropriate

discipline, the discipline of philosophy, of which religion is at best

a primitive first stab. Later on, I will deal with Campos's assertion

that rejecting faith as a means of knowledge (or, as he phrases it,

"believing in materialism") is, in and of itself, an "act of faith".

Now, so far, it would seem that I am being a tad bit unfair to Campos.

Certainly, if this were all he said, that would be the case, because

Sam Harris, who claims to be a neuroscientist and is famous for having

written The End of Faith, is certainly guilty of scientism. But as you

will see, Harris's sins allow Campos, in condemning them, to pose

behind the mask of piety while cashing in on Harris's crimes against

intellectual honesty.

In fact, Campos begins in short order.

Second, the debate about whether the world is ultimately a

meaningless flux or something more has been going on for thousands

of years. The belief that materialism is a product of

post-Enlightenment thought in general and modern science in

particular is itself a product of historical ignorance.

Third, while Harris is quite right that many religious doctrines

sound outrageous to nonbelievers (they often sound outrageous to

believers as well), those who worship in the temple of materialism

fail to consider how outrageous their beliefs can sound to the

uninitiated.

Consider three statements: 1. Torturing a child for one's own

sexual gratification is evil. 2. Shakespeare is a better writer

than George Lucas. 3. Human beings have free will. An

intellectually honest materialist must reject all these claims. At

most, he can recharacterize them in much weaker forms. So, for

example, he can observe that in our society sadistic pedophilia is

considered evil, and that it's this social judgment that determines

the content of morality.

Harris's comments on the strangeness of various religious doctrines

are mostly on the money and come from the implicitly rational first

parts of his book. In the later, new-agey sections, Harris makes all

kinds of hokey statements, like when he smuggles in altruism while

attempting to discuss a "rational" foundation for morality, and ends

up spouting off the following nonsense:

[W]e can see that one could desire to become more loving and

compassionate for purely selfish reasons. This is a paradox, of

sorts, because these attitudes undermine selfishness, by

definition. (!) (191-192)

Things like this makes him, as a "defender" of secularism, easy prey

for someone like Campos, who wants to use problems caused by Harris's

fundamental irrationality to attack his rational facade.

Campos tosses in the argument from intimidation for good measure when

he says that, "An intellectually honest materialist must reject all

these claims." Were Campos himself intellectually honest, he might go

about proving why any one of these claims necessarily contradicts a

secular outlook. Or, since he later discards proof as necessary,

perhaps he could explain to us why his "belief" that these positions

are incompatible with secularism should be accepted above all others.

Or, at least, since he seems to think that secularism is not

necessarily false, he could explain why he took the time to write this

column and get it published. (The level of evasion professional

writers can get away with in our current cultural climate positively

flabbergasts me! Would electroshock treatments or a lobotomy perhaps

further my writing career? But I digress....)

I'll take just one of the three points I supposedly can't defend as an

example. Harris never defines man as "the rational animal", ties

morality to man's life as a standard of value, or explains that

political freedom is the foundation for a proper society because it

allows man to use reason, his tool for survival, unhindered by others.

This is what makes Harris and his ilk unable to explain why, exactly,

torturing a child for one's sexual gratification is evil (and

criminal), for example. The criminality of this act is easier to

explain: It violates the child's rights. The act is immoral on several

counts it would take too long to explain fully. Among them: (1) Since

torture is not part of life proper to a human being, the torturer

damages his own psychological welfare. (2) The torturer invites

self-destruction via criminal penalties or acts of defense on behalf

of the child. (3) He is injuring someone else outside the context of

self-defense. Pedophilic torture isn't just "considered evil", Mr.

Campos, it is evil, and I know exactly why. The question is whether

Campos really does.

Contrast this with what Campos has to say.

But this recharacterization fails utterly to capture what most

people mean when they say sadistic pedophilia is evil. What they

mean, although they might not articulate it in these terms, is that

torturing a child for sexual pleasure is an outrage to the moral

order of the universe. It is not evil because a particular society

considers it evil: it is simply evil.

How would Campos know this? And how does he know that everyone else

(or anyone else) knows this? And, except for the deterrent of capture

(which even the stupidest criminals seem to grasp), what does any such

moral injunction have about it to motivate compliance? Suppose some

perv finds a "consenting" child and a way not to get caught? He has no

clue about what a proper life is all about and is thus less likely to

consider psychotherapy or even such measures as chemical castration to

prevent himself from performing this monstrous act. Why? Because he

won't understand why this is a monstrous act. He'll just have a list

of do's and don't's, and maybe a fairy tale about eternal hellfire he

may credit.

And on a related note, consider torture in the context of adults. Is

torture "just wrong" or might it be moral in some circumstances? How

would we know when it is alright to torture someone? I don't "just

know". Just yesterday, I noted how people who think things are "just

wrong" are mucking up the ongoing national debate over whether America

ought to outlaw the torture of captured terrorists.

Or consider any other moral issue. Oops! I guess that's why Campos had

to choose such an easy moral question -- or at least one that most

people would be afraid to open up for debate. If something is "just

wrong", you really can't marshal any arguments for why it shouldn't be

done. I guess that's why the likes of Campos find reason so unnerving

that they have to set straw men like Sam Harris ablaze. "Gosh! If

people start stringing too many syllogisms together, they'll toss out

morality!" Better to abandon reason than to, say, apply it to

morality, these types are basically saying.

Interestingly, Campos no only echoes Jonathan David Carson in

attacking the straw man of scientism, he also starts sounding a lot

like Lee Harris, who argued, based on subjectivism, that it is

legitimate to hold a debate about whether Creationism or evolution

accurately describes biodiversity! Note the bold.

Materialism, as a philososphical doctrine, has the great advantage

that it reduces the catalog of things that actually exist to those

which can be investigated by science. It has the great disadvantage

that it requires treating as illusions morality, art, free will,

and much else that most people call "reality." That, of course,

does not make it false. It does, however, make it literally

incredible to anyone who hasn't made the leap of faith materialism

requires. [bold added]

Don Watkins correctly identified the essence of such arguments when he

said:

On the Kantian premise, it doesn't matter why men disagree. Since

truth is determined by man's consciousness, the very fact that men

disagree means there is no truth. So long as some men deny the

Holocaust, whether or not it happened "cannot be considered

settled." So long as some men believe that cannibalism is moral,

the question "cannot be considered settled." And what about the

belief that nothing can be considered settled unless all men agree?

Well, hell, that's just self-evident.

Actually, Campos sounds like Lee Harris, but with a twist. Whereas Lee

Harris argues that there is not truth, Campos simply holds that reason

cannot grasp truth. There is no need for debate, in Campos's mind,

because everything is a matter of faith. While Campos pays lip service

to the notion of reality, his "faith-based world" is for all practical

purposes no different than Lee Harris's socially-constructed world:

Either way, you just go with whatever's on your mind regardless of

facts and logic. (And this shakes out in morality: "Do your own

thing." vs. an arbitrary moral code whose lack of justification can't

answer the obvious question, "Why not do your own thing?")

So for George Lucas -- I mean Paul Campos -- not only is disagreement

among men "just self-evident" as Watkins put it, so is everything

else. Pedophilic torture is "just wrong". And men "just have" free

will. And Shakespeare is "just better" as a writer than George Lucas.

And secularism "just treats as illusory" a whole bunch of territory

that Paul Campos "just knows". The fact that he took the time to write

a lengthy essay on the point indicates to me that, at least on some

level (indicating measures of dishonesty, insecurity, or both), Paul

Campos does not "just know" that faith is the only way to answer moral

questions. Why else would he argue the point at such great length?

(And if, contrary to what I think, he does respect reason, why did he

argue so poorly?)

Campos then ends, not on the note of riteous indignation that

pedophilia/materialism/secularism "deserve", but with the petulant

disdain of an adolescent applying peer pressure.

Indeed, I consider holding beliefs such as that sadistic pedophilia

is evil because it violates the basic moral order of the universe

to be part of a fairly minimal definition of sanity. But then I

lack the materialist's faith.

Translation: "My faith is better than your faith. Neener neener

neener!" How profound. And how relevant.

Belief divorced from evidence and proof is hardly a definition -- even

minimal -- of sanity. It undercuts one's mind and with it, morality

and, if done consistently, it even undercuts sanity.

-- CAV

PS: This reminds me of something I said when reviewing the Sam Harris

book:

[O]ne of my greatest concerns about the book is that it would

"champion some new version of revealed truth as a means of

knowledge. [The book] would then end up aiding religion while

appearing to champion reason."

I would say that that fear has been realized in the sense that Sam

Harris seems to be doing a great job of discrediting reason through

the straw man of the scientism-cum-Buddhism he pretends is reason.

Posted at 10:24 PM. Permalink

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3 Comments:

Yay! What a great fisking. :)

Posted by Blogger Jennifer Snow on November 30, 2005 4:14 PM

I agree with Jennifer above,a great fisking job. The ravages of

pragmatism laid bare.

Posted by Anonymous Michael Neibel on November 30, 2005 8:14 PM

Thanks. One further point, though. Campos's fundamental error is not

that he is making a pragmatist argument.

The fundamental error Campos makes in this essay is epistemological.

He regards faith as a means of acquiring knowledge about the universe.

His personal philosophy could be even more fundamentally flawed, at

the metaphysical level (i.e., primacy of consciousness), but that is

neither evident nor relevant here.

Gus

Posted by Blogger Gus Van Horn on November 30, 2005 11:46 PM

Post a Comment

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monty python colin harris

Monty Python Colin 'Bomber' Harris

Having been outposted by the peshku, I will have to post my other

humour video quickly!!

This is the live version of Colin Bomber Harris fighting against

himself.It is from the Monty Python Show...which transformed British

humour on TV in the 1970's.

Unfortunately, the commentator changes the words for the live version,

but the original Tv version went like this....

"Here comes Bomber now, circling round, looking for an opening. He's

wrestled himself many times in the past, this boy, so he knows

practically all his own moves by now. And he's going for the double

hand lock. He's got it. Here's the head squeeze. And the ALBANIAN head

lock. He's going for the throw."

I remember seeing this on UK TV just after I returned from my first

visit to Albania in March 1994. It made me laugh so much!...although I

still don't know what an "Albanian Headlock" is?!

Part of the original TV version can be seen here

http://www.spike.com/video/2704447/collection/14295 but to be honest

the acting does not compare to the live version.

Interestingly, Michael Palin is the host at the beginning. He recently

paid a visit to Albania for a travel show for the BBC.

phoenix police chief harris says theyre

Phoenix Police Chief Harris says they're doing more than anyone in the state

on illegal immigration?

I'd love to hear Sheriff Joe Arpaio's response to the statement by

Phoenix Police Chief Jack Harris, champion of Phoenix's sanctuary city

policy, claiming Phoenix police is doing more than any other law

enforcement agency. Harris has been a leading proponent of the

sanctuary policy, even publicly criticizing Mayor Phil Gordon's

decision to revise the policy. So how does Harris get the nerve to say

that his law enforcement agency is doing more than anyone else on the

state on combating illegal immigration?

"I think there's a little bit of a misnomer out there that Phoenix

samantha harris shows off josselyns

Samantha Harris Shows Off Josselyn's Nursery

Dancing with the Stars co-host Samantha Harris gives us a glimpse

inside her 1-month-old daughter Josselyn's nursery. With the help of

the designer company, Nursery Couture, Harris created a regal nursery

fit for her little princess.

"I love pink and chocolate together. I think it's a more sophisticated

and modern take on traditional baby colors," says Harris.

Already the baby's room is becoming her favorite in the home. She

says, "I think it's modern with a vintage edge, and I couldn't be

happier with it."

The walls were custom painted a pretty pink and a mural artist brought

in to create a focus wall over the crib. The tree itself is accented

with rhinestones spelling out mom and dad's initials inside a heart.

The crib is the Chelsea model from Bratt Decor in buttermilk.

Available for $1,320 from nurserycouture.com.

The bedding and blanket resting on the chair is by Caden Lane. The

Cassie nursery set available at $450 and the pink stripe blanket is

$28.

Harris must have accessory has been the Moses basket in pink candy

stripe from Clairebella. "It's been great for bringing Josselyn into

every room I'm in," Samantha says. Available at $185 at The Polkadot

Platypus.

There's even a special spot for a little stuffed friend.

For the wall over the changing table, Samantha had another mural

painted. She says, "It's fun to have a crown for my little princess.

The changing table is the Chelsea dresser / changing table combo from

Bratt Decor priced at $1,738. The top is accented with personalized

photos in handpainted frames and fun burp clothes.

blazers knicks and more on devin harris

Blazers-Knicks (and More on Devin Harris)

I watched every second of the Blazers 94-88 overtime win against the

Knicks tonight, in part because I love the Blazers but also because

I'm trying to talk myself out of the feeling that this Devin Harris

trade has to happen.

On one hand, I guess tonight's game was proof that Portland shouldn't

engage in such a drastic trade as the victory underscored the team's

ability to win by playing hard and as a group. The Knicks are a sorry

basketball team, no doubt, but they were getting after it at the Rose

Garden and weren't an easy squad to put away. Plus, the young Blazers

were coming off that heart-wrenching loss at the hands of LeBron the

other day. Travis Outlaw (rumored to be part of the Harris deal) made

a bunch of big plays and Jarrett Jack even came through in the OT. So

it was admittedly harder to push for the trade while watching these

young guys work like crazy for a come-from-behind win.

On the other hand, this game could be seen another way entirely. Sure,

they won, but it was a home game against New York. Should the Blazers

really need to struggle to win that type of contest? They had serious

problems in three areas tonight: containing quick guards, getting out

in transition, and securing defensive rebounds. These are the three

biggest issues with this team in general, as well. The rebounding

issue was blatant tonight as former Blazer Zach Randolph hit the glass

(13 boards) and the Knicks energizer bunny duo of David Lee and

Renaldo Balkman combined for a whopping 13 offensive rebounds (four

more than the entire Blazers team). However, that problem is the one

most likely to be solved in the long run as Greg Oden should provide a

terrific presence on the boards.

(By the way, I'd like to note here that Isiah Thomas is a moron for

not playing Balkman and Lee 35 minutes a night together at the two

forward spots. He's busy carving out minutes for Eddy Curry and

Quentin Richardson and the whole time he's got these two whirling

dervishes on his bench. Lee and Balkman finally got some run together

- 74 minutes - and combined for 25 points and 10-of-16 shooting, 25

rebounds, and 3 blocks. With shoot-first Randolph in the post and

shoot first guards Nate Robinson and Jamal Crawford on the perimeter,

Lee and Balkman are the perfect guys to slot in at the forward spots.

I guess it just makes too much sense for Thomas.)

The other two problems - handling quick guards and getting out in

transition - are not going away for the Blazers, even after Oden

arrives with his shot-blocking ability. Portland had very few

transition chances against a poor transition defense and Nate Robinson

was able to get to the rim at will in the first half and make several

key plays down the stretch simply because he was faster than anyone

Portland had to put on him.

These two issues are why I feel so strongly that the Blazers need to

make this Devin Harris trade happen. He is lightening fast, long, and

underrated defensively. If he's on the court tonight, he completely

negates Robinson, helps get the Blazers into transition, and likely

helps to blow New York right off the court. (Plus, Brandon Bass would

have been a nice answer on the glass.)

I mentioned in a previous post that the Blazers might be able to

convince the Nets to take less in exchange for Kidd. If they could

swap Webster and Sergio for Outlaw (giving up Jack, Webster, Frye, and

Rodriguez), that would be ideal. And while at first glance it seems

unlikely that the Nets would consent to that, remember that their

primary motivation is the financial flexibility that comes from

getting out from under Kidd's contract. As we saw with Memphis today,

the talent coming back in a trade is secondary to the dollar issues.

Were such a trade to go through, it would leave the Blazers with the

following players, in order of value:

1. Brandon Roy - Oden or no Oden, this guy is the franchise right now.

2. LaMarcus Aldridge - I know most would consider Oden to be the more

valuable big man, but the fact is we don't know exactly what Oden is

going to do at the pro level, nor do we know how healthy he will be.

Aldridge is already showing serious skills and is following the Chris

Bosh Instructional Video to the letter. I've said it before, but this

team will likely go as far as Aldridge can take them.

3. Greg Oden - Not bad when a franchise center is only the third-most

valuable guy on the team.

4. Devin Harris - A top flight defender, one of the fastest guys in

the NBA, and a top 10 point guard based on PER ... all at age 24. This

guy is a keeper and the answer to title obstacles now (Tony Parker)

and later (Chris Paul).

5. Travis Outlaw - He convinced me tonight that he can be this team's

starting small forward down the road, which means he's not such a

danger to Aldridge's minutes/development. I understand why Portland

fans are on the fence about trading him for Harris, but if push came

to shove, I think Harris has more value (as you can see).

6. Rudy Fernandez - It is appropriate to slot him here, since he's

going to wind up being a Manu-esque 6th Man for the Blazers. His size,

handles, athleticism, and playmaking are going to be a godsend next

year for a team in need of fast break players. He might actually be

more valuable than Outlaw, but I'll go with the known commodity for

now.

7. Steve Blake - He's become a deadly shooter this year, which has to

frustrate George Karl (if Blake made threes like this last April, the

Spurs would have been watching the second round of the playoffs from

home). Regardless, he's a gritty player who can spread the floor and

would be an ideal guy to back up Harris and even play alongside him

when Portland wants to go to that three-guard lineup.

8. Joel Przybilla - Prezbo will make for a very nice backup center.

9. James Jones - He is struggling mightily right now, but he has

proved throughout the season that he can be more than three-point

specialist ... as long as his shot is falling he tends to come alive

in other areas.

10. Brandon Bass - He would have more value this year, plugging the

hole left by Frye, but could still help out down the road, even after

Oden returns.

11. Taurean Green - I'm not convinced that this guy won't be a legit

NBA point guard at some point (sorry for the double negative).

12. Josh McRoberts - Ditto, but substitute the word "forward" in place

of "point guard."

Others - Raef LaFrentz (he always be a Portland hero just for being

part of the deal that netted Brandon Roy), Darius Miles (I speak for

all Blazers fans when I say, please, get rid of him soon), Petteri

Koponen, and Joel Freeland.

The best thing about this team is that they would have all the pieces

in place and at similar ages, meaning that there would be no need to

make moves via free agency. Which is good, because by the time they

lock everybody up to long-term deals, the salary cap will be about

$110 million. Good thing Paul Allen is rich!

But I think they need speed at the point guard position. They need

Harris. Hopefully they can throw the aforementioned group of players

and maybe a few draft picks at New Jersey (and hopefully Dallas will

panic after the Gasol trade) and get this done while still keeping

harris county republican judges lash

UPDATED - Harris County Republican Judges Lash Out Wildly in Fear?

This sign is apparently cursed. An acquaintance allowed me to put it

up on the legs of his Southwest Freeway mini-billboard. First I had to

work with him to clear the weeds from the lot. That resulted in what

is going on 3 weeks of poison ivy, including a course of steroids, and

a million buckets of Aveeno.

I finally got the sign up on Friday night before Labor Day. By Tuesday

morning, though, some degenerates who don't know how freaking

expensive these things are, had x'd out my sign.

I choose to believe it has to be forces affiliated with my opponent,

as they don't sell spray paint to just anyone, you know. ;-)

Clearly this is an indication that Harris County Republicans are

terrified. I have heard that from many different quarters.

Nevertheless, that they would waste no time in defacing a Democratic

candidate's sign on the Southwest Freeway more than 14 months before

the election is quite telling.

Democrats should use this as a rallying cry!

I will get another sign up there soon. Look for it between Kirby and

Buffalo Speedway on the southbound side of the Freeway.

Tell your friends what happened, and forward this blog entry to your

Republican friends (if any) and let them smell the desperation for

themselves.

Posted by Picasa

Update

I knew this had Republican written all over it. Look what Karl Rove

did to a DCCC e-mail banner! Same M.O., no?

letter to christian nation sam harris

Letter to a Christian Nation - Sam Harris

New York Times Best Seller

In response to The End of Faith, Sam Harris received thousands of

letters from Christians excoriating him for not believing in God.

Letter to A Christian Nation is his reply. Using rational argument,

Harris offers a measured refutation of the beliefs that form the core

of fundamentalist Christianity. In the course of his argument, he

addresses current topics ranging from intelligent design and stem-cell

research to the connections between religion and violence. In Letter

to a Christian Nation, Sam Harris boldly challenges the influence that

faith has on public life in the United States.

"I dare you to read this book...it will not leave you unchanged.

Read it if it is the last thing you do."

-- Richard Dawkins, author of The Selfish Gene and The God

Delusion, from his Foreward to the UK Edition.

Info: http://www.samharris.org

Download:

http://rapidshare.com/files/44780208/Sam_Harris_-_Letter_to_a_christia

n_nation.pdf

at 10:00 AM

mark harris on provisionality

Mark Harris on Provisionality

Mark Harris, a priest of our church and the blogger at Preludium,

continues to write fine essays on the state of the Episcopal Church

and the Anglican Communion. This weekend, he exceeded even my high

expectations with his essay, "The Limits of Provisionality." As I said

in the comments on his post, I found it one of the saddest and most

hopeful essays I've read in the last few years.

He begins:

One of the marks of Anglicanism is the sense that we Anglicans hold

those behaviors, actions, ceremonials, theologies, statements, etc,

that are peculiarly Anglican as provisional against the day when

God will inform us in deeper ways through Scripture, Reason and

Tradition of the Truth in Jesus Christ. That is, we do not assume

that we Anglicans are in any final way right. We do not claim to be

the true church, but rather an expression of the true church.

One way to think of ourselves is to suppose we are in a large room,

crowded with Anglicans with various recent experiences, and at the

same time some sense of family. We find ourselves grounded in

different perspectives on theology, used to different ceremonial,

have differing sensibilities about social and moral concerns.

Everyone at this gathering talks of what they know of the presence

of the Lord in their lives, the missionary sense that they derive

from such presence, and the lives they lead in the light of Christ.

They eat and drink together a lot. Some will accuse us of being a

party in progress.

He speaks poetically and passionately of the things that are best in

our Big Fat Anglican Family.

He then speaks of the unrest that has been introduced into the

Anglican Communion, at least since the consecration of Gene Robinson,

or maybe dating back to the ordination of women:

We might expect that when some in the crowd become more and more

uncomfortable with being provisional and begin to assert that their

understandings are of the catholic faith and those of others in the

crowd were not, the limits of provisionality would get tested. The

more the push for a particular position as that of the "faith once

delivered of the Saints," the more the community would begin to be

nervous about their own provisionality. What had seemed a gracious

effort to be a community of mutuality and loving kindness now would

look like a lack of faith. Others than might begin to be more

stringent as well, calling for obedience to the call that they had

experienced and with which they were engaged.

He then comes to a very sad conclusion. He concludes that the generous

provisionality that has characterized the Anglican Communion has died:

What are the limits to provisionality? Well, after all the

conversation in the big room, with all the Anglicans from around

the world and in our own back yards talking and learning from one

another, when those who clamor for the definitive community that is

the True Church wreck the provisional life, there is only this to

do:

Turn off the lights and take out the trash.

Provisionality does not include being held hostage to some

covenanted code, or someone's sense that they are the true

protectors of the faith once delivered, or some high toned loyalty

oath to the unvarnished scriptures. When the conversation is

dominated by those who rant and who are no longer interested in

gathering in a room big enough for common action among truly

diverse peoples, it may be time to say, "The party's over. Come

back tomorrow."

I think the party is over: Time to turn off the lights and take out

the trash.

Then he continues with the hopeful part:

Several years ago I suggested that the Anglican Communion is an

organic thing: it has a life and it came into self-conscious

existence at some point and it will someday die. What we can hope

for is that when the provisional community gathers again they will

remember with thanksgiving the work that the Anglican Communion has

done. I believe that.

I strongly believe that the Anglican Communion, as a fellowship of

churches committed to being an expression of the Church, but not

The Church, provisional and diverse in its understandings and

experience of the faith and willing to work together as churches,

will continue. I believe the Episcopal Church will be a part of

that fellowship.

I also believe that when this community gathers, perhaps at

Lambeth, but surely in a wide variety of gatherings great and small

in which bread is broken and stories told, God's will for us all

will be advanced and we will be made new for new days.

Others will go and make their own way.

But for this to happen it is time to declare that this party is

over. This party has become spiritually disabling.

The only way to believe in the resurrection is to practice

resurrection. [...] When this gathering is over there is another

ready to begin.

The Anglican sense of provisionality will find new form.

The Episcopal Church will live into that provisionality.

The gathering will gather again.

I suspect Mark Harris is right. We Episcopalians cleave to the

incarnation and the resurrection. This experiment in tolerance (or

"provisionality" in Mark's terms) cannot be over. Perhaps we need to

let this current structure die, so that we can see what kind of

resurrection we will experience after the schismatics do their worst

and leave.

Do go over to Preludium and read Mark Harris's full essay.

posted by Lisa Fox at 11/19/2007 08:25:00 PM

3 Comments:

Anonymous seamus said...

Dean Allan of Grace cathedral in San Francisco says that it is

the Episcopal's great joy that one day all will be converted to

its generosity, and they will all be Anglicans,,, it is also

its great misfortune that they wont know it when it happens.

11/20/2007 4:23 AM

Blogger Grandm�re Mimi said...

And they all said "Amen!" Well, not all, really. Only in my

dreams, more's the pity.

It is a beautiful essay.

11/23/2007 1:24 PM

Blogger Mike Greiner said...

Yes, death and resurrection. The death of the Anglican church

party in the West, and the birth of true Anglican life in

Africa and Asia.

We thank God for the Africans and Asians. Perhaps their efforts

to revive the dying Episcopal church in America will begin a

new Spring Time, and start the party again.

12/04/2007 6:57 PM